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	<title>Comments on: ID Fraud Figures &#8211; dodgy or what?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/</link>
	<description>The latest on Identity Cards and Databases in the UK</description>
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		<title>By: martinb</title>
		<link>http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/comment-page-1/#comment-11712</link>
		<dc:creator>martinb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.no2id.net/news/newsblog/?p=351#comment-11712</guid>
		<description>Looking at the table in detail, of the APACS figure:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
(i) Counterfeit (skimmed/cloned) cards 
£129.7m 
(ii) Cards lost or stolen £114.4m 
(iii) Card not present £150.8m 
(iv) Mail non-receipt £72.9m 
(v) Fraudulent applications £13.1m 
(vi) Account takeover £23.8m 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Items i, ii and iv will be taken care of by Chip &amp; PIN. 
iii won&#039;t be touched by ID Cards

v and vi &lt;em&gt;may&lt;/em&gt; be improved by ID cards, but that&#039;s only 7% of the claimed total, which I&#039;d be very surprised to see 100% effectiveness in this. Other security measures being taken by most card-issuers will also reduce vi quite a bit - Egg already call to confirm unusual large transactions.

Nae doot we&#039;ll be seeing the  the Benefit Fraud Bogey being trotted out soon by the popular press (by, say, the still Labour supporting Sun). Let&#039;s keep in mind the whopping £20m-£50m (woo) figure for identity-related benefit fraud for when that happens. That&#039;s the size of saving that DWP recoups in a tactical project, barely mentioned in passing in a Commons written answer...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at the table in detail, of the APACS figure:</p>
<blockquote><p>
(i) Counterfeit (skimmed/cloned) cards<br />
£129.7m<br />
(ii) Cards lost or stolen £114.4m<br />
(iii) Card not present £150.8m<br />
(iv) Mail non-receipt £72.9m<br />
(v) Fraudulent applications £13.1m<br />
(vi) Account takeover £23.8m
</p></blockquote>
<p>Items i, ii and iv will be taken care of by Chip &amp; PIN.<br />
iii won&#8217;t be touched by ID Cards</p>
<p>v and vi <em>may</em> be improved by ID cards, but that&#8217;s only 7% of the claimed total, which I&#8217;d be very surprised to see 100% effectiveness in this. Other security measures being taken by most card-issuers will also reduce vi quite a bit &#8211; Egg already call to confirm unusual large transactions.</p>
<p>Nae doot we&#8217;ll be seeing the  the Benefit Fraud Bogey being trotted out soon by the popular press (by, say, the still Labour supporting Sun). Let&#8217;s keep in mind the whopping £20m-£50m (woo) figure for identity-related benefit fraud for when that happens. That&#8217;s the size of saving that DWP recoups in a tactical project, barely mentioned in passing in a Commons written answer&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: martinb</title>
		<link>http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/comment-page-1/#comment-11711</link>
		<dc:creator>martinb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.no2id.net/news/newsblog/?p=351#comment-11711</guid>
		<description>Including credit card fraud at all is on shaky ground. Naturally, all CnP fraud will be utterly untouched by ID Cards, unless and until we get to the Police State of &quot;Please enter/quote your National ID Number to make this purchase&quot; for *all* remote purchases. Which of course is devastatingly insecure, as per SSID in the US.

Of the rest, I&#039;ve *never* been asked to prove my identity when paying in person by CC (except for goods/services which *need* ID checking, when the ID element is for the goods/service, not the payment). HMG presumably hasn&#039;t noticed a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wee project&lt;/a&gt; which takes care of the vast majority of face to face CC fraud, finally coming into effect on Tuesday week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Including credit card fraud at all is on shaky ground. Naturally, all CnP fraud will be utterly untouched by ID Cards, unless and until we get to the Police State of &#8220;Please enter/quote your National ID Number to make this purchase&#8221; for *all* remote purchases. Which of course is devastatingly insecure, as per SSID in the US.</p>
<p>Of the rest, I&#8217;ve *never* been asked to prove my identity when paying in person by CC (except for goods/services which *need* ID checking, when the ID element is for the goods/service, not the payment). HMG presumably hasn&#8217;t noticed a <a href="http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">wee project</a> which takes care of the vast majority of face to face CC fraud, finally coming into effect on Tuesday week.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Gibbs</title>
		<link>http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/comment-page-1/#comment-11697</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Gibbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.no2id.net/news/newsblog/?p=351#comment-11697</guid>
		<description>PS, might the magic new 372m on telecommunications fraud actually be a partial double count of the credit card fraud figure?

The &quot;substantial portion&quot; language seems to imply 372m is too big anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS, might the magic new 372m on telecommunications fraud actually be a partial double count of the credit card fraud figure?</p>
<p>The &#8220;substantial portion&#8221; language seems to imply 372m is too big anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Gibbs</title>
		<link>http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/comment-page-1/#comment-11693</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Gibbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.no2id.net/news/newsblog/?p=351#comment-11693</guid>
		<description>My favourite entry was this for the passport service of £62.8m to cover:

&quot;The cost to UKPS of measures to counter identity
fraud when processing applications for UK passports issued in the UK.&quot;

... isn&#039;t that what the passport service *is for* in the first place? It certainly not what I&#039;d call fraud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favourite entry was this for the passport service of £62.8m to cover:</p>
<p>&#8220;The cost to UKPS of measures to counter identity<br />
fraud when processing applications for UK passports issued in the UK.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230; isn&#8217;t that what the passport service *is for* in the first place? It certainly not what I&#8217;d call fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: dunx</title>
		<link>http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/comment-page-1/#comment-11687</link>
		<dc:creator>dunx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.no2id.net/news/newsblog/?p=351#comment-11687</guid>
		<description>Thanks for clarifying that wtwu.

It would be nice if the government actually came out and defined what &quot;identity fraud&quot; was, and perhaps went so far as to make it a crime since it is so costly and scary.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/2005/03/identity_fraud_does_not_cost_t.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&quot;&gt;Spyblog has the 2002 breakdown of &quot;identity fraud&quot; cost to the nation, and some good discussion&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for clarifying that wtwu.</p>
<p>It would be nice if the government actually came out and defined what &#8220;identity fraud&#8221; was, and perhaps went so far as to make it a crime since it is so costly and scary.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/2005/03/identity_fraud_does_not_cost_t.html" rel="nofollow"">Spyblog has the 2002 breakdown of &#8220;identity fraud&#8221; cost to the nation, and some good discussion</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Watching Them, Watching Us</title>
		<link>http://www.no2id.net/newsblog/2006-02/if-fraud-figures-dodgy-or-what/comment-page-1/#comment-11686</link>
		<dc:creator>Watching Them, Watching Us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.no2id.net/news/newsblog/?p=351#comment-11686</guid>
		<description>Eeek 

&quot;big chnk inder onderct&quot; = &quot;big chunk under indirect&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eeek </p>
<p>&#8220;big chnk inder onderct&#8221; = &#8220;big chunk under indirect&#8221;</p>
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